I'm right and everyone else is wrong!!! >:O

[asael]

This is meta! About Mukuro and Hibari. I wrote it. Aggy found the pictures and laughed at me while I wrote it. Thank you Aggy. Please click the cut. There are pictures!



Once upon a time, I told Aggy (nonartisan) I would write Mukuro & Hibari meta. So here it is. This is just my opinion, of course, but I'm supporting it with canon evidence. It's not exactly that I think that everyone writes them wrong, but everyone seems to take it as a given that Mukuro is the one chasing after Hibari, and that Mukuro is the one who's interested in him, while Hibari couldn't care less (except to be annoyed, maybe.)

Canon pretty much says the opposite when it comes to these two. From the beginning, Mukuro does show that Hibari at least registers on his radar – he knows Hibari is the strongest in Namimori, and he goes out of his way to take him out when it comes to that. Obviously he did his research in order to find out how strong Hibari is and what his weaknesses are, but even then, Hibari was never his final goal – just a step on the road.

Mukuro is impressed by Hibari, though, because Hibari is stronger and more stubborn than expected – attacking Mukuro even after his body is too injured to continue.



Mukuro is surprised!


We can see that he IS interested in Hibari, since he shows up before the Mist Ring battle just to comment on Hibari's growth.



Look, Hibari's checking out Mukuro's ass!


So I'm not saying that Mukuro is completely uninterested.

What I am saying is that Hibari is much MORE interested. He's got Mukuro on his mind basically from the moment he gets beaten, and that doesn't disappear throughout the course of the manga. Fighting Mukuro again (and beating him into a bloody pulp) is one of Hibari's prime motivations that we see.

For example, after Gokudera's ring battle, Reborn is able to stop Hibari from attacking the Varia only by telling him that if he doesn't, he'll get to fight Mukuro again.



You can't win, Hibari! His head is too big, it will crush you.


We rarely do get to see any signs of Hibari's motivation for the things he does (and I really don't think he needs it, most of the time), but when we do – it's usually Mukuro.

Later, in the TYL arc, Hibari fights Genkishi.



Hmm, I wonder who he could be talking about.


He says that he is the best choice to fight Mist users, because he hates them so much (and he's spent so much time training to be able to beat them). Obviously there's no one he could mean except Mukuro. So ten years later, Hibari is still chasing after Mukuro, which is definitely not something he'd do if he just considered Mukuro an annoying pest.



Kusakabe's fishing! Maybe he ships 6918.


He also states clearly that he's not interested in Chrome if Mukuro's not inside her.

Mukuro still holds some interest in Hibari, as well, since it's stated that he was observing Hibari when inhabiting the owl, but it doesn't quite seem equal.



Hibari was acting on intuition that the owl was Mukuro... that's cute.


We get as little of Mukuro's true motivations as we do of Hibari's, but Mukuro's don't seem to involve Hibari in any way, or if they do, he never mentions them. He's interested, but not as creepy-stalkery-obsessed as he's often written. If anyone's the stalker here, it's probably Hibari.

Mukuro does keep an eye on Hibari over the years and over the course of the manga (visiting him before the Mist ring fight, Muku-owl observing him, Mukuro sending the files to Hibari's server instead of the Vongola's), but HIBARI is the one who's obsessed with chasing after him. He recognizes Mukuro's strength through Chrome ('if you die, we'll all be in trouble'), and has made a point of training to be able to fight Mist users (otherwise he wouldn't have done so well against Genkishi - Genkishi is startled that Hibari can see through his illusions), and he talks about Mukuro like ALL THE TIME (he even asked about Mukuro in the drama CD). In fact, it seems like besides the obvious things (dominating Namimori, biting herbivores to death), Mukuro is one of the few things that will motivate Hibari, whereas Hibari doesn't seem to hold that much interest for Mukuro. He's more interested in Tsuna (but this meta is not about Tsuna).

This seemed obvious to me just from reading the manga, but fandom seems to have such a different view of their relationship that I occasionally wonder if we're reading the same manga. Thus, the meta. Anyone is free to disagree, but now the world knows why I think it's strange that people always write Mukuro chasing after Hibari, rather than the other way around – since to me, that seems a lot more canon.

And I know that the world cares very much about my interpretation of the text of a silly shounen manga.

THE END >:O



I mean, look at him. Why would HE need to run after anyone?

Comments

[ketchupblood.livejournal.com]

Wait, do people really think that? Because when I talked to my friend about the pairing, I kind of thought it was obvious that it was the other way. =|

[asael.livejournal.com]

You would think so, but sadly that's not the case. I think it's because a lot of fans of the pairing are more Hibari fans, and they don't really take the time to think about Mukuro's character as much because they're so focused on Hibari. The writing isn't BAD or anything, but Mukuro always seems to fall into a particular category instead them taking the time to really flesh out his character.

But then, I'm a Mukuro fan, so I have to represent for my team. XD

[ketchupblood.livejournal.com]

Really? Even just with Hibari, wasn't there a period where he was slightly obsessed with Mukuro because Mukuro had beaten him? =|

[asael.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and sometimes people do like to play with that! I'm not saying this is the one true view that fandom holds, or anything. It's just that there are a whole lot of fics out there that have Mukuro going after Hibari somehow and Hibari hating him (lots of noncon) when I think it would really be a little more equal, if not weighted towards Hibari being more interested.

...I just woke up so I don't know if that makes any sense. x.x

[ketchupblood.livejournal.com]

You make perfect sense. I just couldn't imagine anyone seeing it with Mukuro chasing Hibari. :P

[porvoras.livejournal.com]

YOU ARE MY HERO.
*shot*

I agree with you on the whole 1869/6918 thing. It should totally be 1869 D:

and I must say,
Look, Hibari's checking out Mukuro's ass!
Makes me lawl.

[asael.livejournal.com]

I totally agree! I mean, when it comes down to it, I'm just happy people write Mukuro and Hibari together at all. But I think 1869 is a little more accurate to them as characters.

And I guess he's technically checking out Chrome's ass in that picture. But oh well.

[porvoras.livejournal.com]

Yea that's true, but the amount of 1869 out there is preposterous!

Only two fics.
ASDFGBHDHJK,SC; D:

It's still Mukuro~ :B

[asael.livejournal.com]

I know. :\ If it helps at all, I'll probably only write 1869 because I like it better that way. And it's hotter when Hibari tops. XD

...there are TWO fics?

[porvoras.livejournal.com]

Hooray! 8DDD Iunno; but in my mind when Hibari tops Mukuro, it's always kinky. Hibari's all BITEEEEEEE and Mukuro could be considered a damn masochist .__.;;

YEA.
this one (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4571365/1/Taste) and this (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4654546/1/Dominance)
That last one has smut but kinda grammar-challenged :X
SO LITTLEEE.

[asael.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think I might agree. XD At least, their sex lives would never be boring! Hibari seems more like the aggressive type, really. And Mukuro's already twisted. XD

Yay, thank you for linking me! I'll go check them out!

[porvoras.livejournal.com]

XDDD That's true~ But I wonder if there'd be anything else other than sex in their relationship .___.;;

You're welcome~
They were pretty really interesting XDD

[asael.livejournal.com]

I guess that's up to fanfic to figure out. XD That's the fun part, developing their relationship!

I'm on a vacation and borrowing someone's computer now, but I'll definitely read when I get home.

[yue-blanche.livejournal.com]

its just some question why hibari is so often paired up with gokudera and tsuna even if he has not really such a strong interest in them as he has on dino and mukuro.( well in dinos case its not interest its just he found someone who is equal in fighting level) and some fans seems to love it that mukuro wants tsunas body. but his intentions isn´t something romantic as all the guys are saying.

I completely agree with your talk about them. but I have to say that mukuro cares about a few people. his kyokou peoples: ken and chikusa. and chrome. and of course about hibari but his reasons for that isn´t so clear as it is on hibaris for wanting mukuro bite to death.

[asael.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with you. Mukuro does care about some people, even if he doesn't like to show it. I don't really know why people like to pair Hibari with everyone under the sun, but really they can do whatever they like (though I won't read it XD). I do think Mukuro's one of the only people Hibari shows real interest in, though!

[yue-blanche.livejournal.com]

well it is shown that he has some relationship to dino. though I don´t know how to describe this relationship but their is some.
but I think mukuro isn´t someone who runs after someone. like you said. and I love your fanfictions!!*_*

[asael.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, Hibari and Dino do have a relationship, though I don't ship them. :) But I think he's more interested in Mukuro.

Thank you for reading my fics!

[monochrome-hime.livejournal.com]

OMG HELL YEAH.
THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS |DDD~ <3
I FREAKING LOVEE YOU. 83 <3<3

[asael.livejournal.com]

Thank you for reading! :D I'm not allowed to accept your love or else I'll get sprayed with water (as my S.O. just told me), but I appreciate the thought. And it's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way about 6918.

[iluxia.livejournal.com]

Totally agree. Hahah, innit ironic that the stereotype stalker character (Mukuro) is the stalkee in their case? Just reflects how twisted their relationship is / can be.

And Mukuro is Mukuro -- of course he'd prioritize Tsuna over Hibari. I disagree that Mukuro doesn't hold "much of an interest" to Hibari; Tsuna and Hibari are equal interests, Hibari probably more so because of his potential and non-herbivoreness (because it's quite obvious that Mukuro doesn't like herbivores, only, he knows how to use and and manipulate them into non-herbivority) -- but Tsuna benefits him more than Hibari does, so he puts Tsuna first. He's wickedly himself that way. True Slytherin to the core. Tsuna, after all, gives him the entirety of the Vongola should he ever manage to possess him. Hibari gives him nothing.

Well, okay, not nothing, but. The Vongola's huge-ass. Kind of hard to match that. Sorry, Hibari, darling. Don't worry; we still love you anyway.

[asael.livejournal.com]

I definitely prefer Mukuro/Hibari to Mukuro/Tsuna, but I do think that Mukuro is more interested in Tsuna in canon because of the power and the potential he holds. Mukuro seems pretty interested in Hibari's progress, but he can already possess Hibari if he wants to, right? Whereas Tsuna is part of his grand plan, or whatever, and he hasn't managed to steal Tsuna's body yet.

But that's just purely 'interest', when it comes to more non-canon types of interest (like lust), I think Hibari wins out. He's already strong, and Mukuro seems to like tough guys. XD In a way, Hibari would be a more personal type of interest while Tsuna would be a more professional type. And since it's Mukuro, his goals will always be more important than his personal interests.

[penombrelilas.livejournal.com]

This seemed obvious to me just from reading the manga
Same here. That's why it surpises me to read that "fandom" is supposed to share the opposite view on their relationship. If that's the case, then I'm glad you decided to cast some light upon it ;D

[asael.livejournal.com]

Haha, well, I just read a lot of fics where Mukuro is interested in or pursuing Hibari and Hibari thinks he's a pest. Also lots of noncon. And I think their relationship is a little more equal than it's often portrayed. ^_^ But I don't necessarily think that EVERYONE thinks this!

[whispering-eden.livejournal.com]

Lol! Mukuro doesn't need to go after Hibari when he's already the one with the most control in their relationship. It's much more his style to sit back and bait Hibari. Probably more fun too. ^^

I actually love this about these two, because while they're generally equal and in a league of their own the fundamental difference is that Hibari, badass as he is, is still "only human" whereas Mukuro is significantly less so.

Therefore I think it's inevitable that Hibari, fueled by human emotions like blood-lust and anger, should come to have such a strong & competitive intrest in Mukuro. Meanwhile it's Mukuro's nature to be disconnected from the world so his interest in Hibari is also less direct. He does not stalk Hibari, he watches over him!

I personally find it pretty charming that Mukuro just takes the blame & rivalry placed upon him by Hibari with no complaints. Even though we know it was never his idea to be rivals in the first place, instead he lets Hibari get on with his vengeance gig surely knowing full well that without him Hibari would never have become so strong so quickly. Thus, he likes to check up on Hibari to see how he is getting on. <3

[asael.livejournal.com]

I agree! Mukuro's got his goals and desires, but in a way he's above things - he intentionally presents himself as wanting nothing but those goals (though we know that's not true because he cares about Ken and Chikusa), while Hibari is more fueled by emotion, like you said. In fact, I could just say 'I agree!' to your whole comment. XD

[riya-chan.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree with you. Mukuro definitely holds a stronger interest in Tsuna. You get a sense of that when Tsuna sympathizes with Mukuro when "experiencing" Mukuro's current imprisonment. Mukuro seems touched by Tsuna's actions prior to passing out. Mukuro also shows interest in Hibari, but you don't ever really get one of those moments from Mukuro in regards to Hibari. On the other hand, it's so true that Hibari is consistently thinking of Mukuro. It only becomes more of an obsession with the TYL time frame as he's much more open about his interests in Mukuro. Yet it's definitely somehow much more common to come across 6918 in which Mukuro stalks an irritated Hibari and non-con occurs. It's so difficult to come across 1869 at all, much less really worthwhile reads. I suspect it's due partially to Mukuro's stalkerish tendencies in regards to Hibari and Mukuro's power surpassing Hibari's that cause the general fandom to label Hibari as the sought after uke in the relationship. If Mukuro weren't the stronger of the two, I somewhat doubt we'd see so much 1869 as power seems to be a main determinant of being a seme across the vast majority of fandoms.

[riya-chan.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the typo! I meant 6918 in that last line there.

[asael.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't ship 6927 but it's pretty hard to deny Mukuro's interest in Tsuna (though I don't think it's really a sexual interest). On the other hand, he seems to play with Hibari more than anything else - it's only a light interest, because Hibari is strong.

I do wish people would write 1869 more. Hibari just seems to be the fandom's uke bicycle (though I honestly don't know where that comes from at ALL), so I guess it's no surprise that there's a lot more 6918.

I definitely agree that power plays a big part of why Mukuro almost always is written as the seme. Power and height. XD Hibari is short, after all, and the height rule is somehow embedded in anime fandom. For me, the dynamic plays out more realistically if Hibari is the aggressive one, because it fits his personality better, but I think I'm in the minority on that.

I agree with basically everything you said in your comment. ^_^

[riya-chan.livejournal.com]

I don't ship 6927 either (mostly due to lack of interest in Tsuna though). ^^; I don't think it's sexual interest either. But it's rather touching nonetheless when Mukuro seems to have so few that understand or sympathize with him outside his small circle. Mukuro does seem to be a tease only when it comes to Hibari though. ;D

Haha, fandom's uke bicycle completely applies to Hibari. He's almost (though not whored out quite as much) the Cloud of the Reborn series. (_ _;) You're right, I completely forgot about his height. Maybe it's since I haven't looked into their TYL stats and you don't really get to see Mukuro and Hibari standing next to each other TYL so it never occurred to me. Hibari is definitely more agressive in his pursuit of Mukuro. Now that I think about it, theoretically if he's the strongest of the guardians TYL, that's assuming he's stronger now then Mukuro as well... right? I don't know.

[asael.livejournal.com]

Definitely... I think Tsuna's a little boring, but I also think it's really nice that he does seem to have some kind of sympathy for Mukuro. Since no one else does!

I'm more a Mukuro fan than a Hibari fan, so I often roll my eyes when I see some Hibari pairings. Especially since the guy seems to dislike everyone, and yet, he gets paired up more than anyone else. XD Yeah, Hibari is shorter than Mukuro in 'present-day', and I don't know if there even are TYL stats anywhere - I'm sure he's grown, though.

I don't know either... I do think Hibari is physically the strongest and best fighter of the guardians TYL, but just like when they fought before, Mukuro has no problem using dirty tricks to win. XD So while I do think Hibari would win in a straight out fight, I don't think Mukuro would let things come to that. >.>;; But that's just my opinion.

[whispering-eden.livejournal.com]

"Now that I think about it, theoretically if he's the strongest of the guardians TYL, that's assuming he's stronger now than Mukuro as well... right? I don't know."

When they say strongest I think they mean physically strongest and the most destructive. While Hibari is bound to be the best all-out brawler it would be very difficult to weigh up the strengths and weaknesses of all the Guradians because their fighting styles and personalities are all as different as the elements they represent. I mean say you sent Hibari on an infiltration mission, he'd probably beat up anyone he came across. Send Hayato on the same mission and it would be different, he'd have a fixed strategy & stick to it. Send Takeshi and it would be different again because he doesn't like hurting people so he'd complete the mission with as few casualties as possible, and so it goes on.

It's not just that Hibari is capable of great destruction but he's also willing whereas the other guardians aren't really like that at all. I guess you have to ask yourself what makes a person strong, being able to go beserk? Being a great strategist? Being able to manipulate others? Being the most versatile? There's no telling what would happen if all the TYL Guradians decided to have a battle royal, maybe the winner would be whoever successfully pitted all the others against each other and then did a Reborn and stole the prize at the end, lol!

It may just be me, but I got the impression that Hibari's title as the strongest was born from the Millefiore's fear of him as much as anything else, and as there's been no canon closure on the Muku-Hibi rivalry who can say whether physical strength is enough to beat Mukuro or not? He has got five other fighting styles to use if Hibari beats him in Shura after all...

[fantasygirl49.livejournal.com]

this is a pretty interesting take, you made me smile the whole way through reading this...i am a hibari fan and i love to pair hibari with another strong character, that's why i don't like 1827 as much since i like hibari as uke, that's right i like to see my fave char. get molested ^__^

in my opinion hibari has a strong urge to fight mukuro because he was humuliated by mukuro once, and hibari has a lot of pride, so he would like to take revenge on mukuro, it does sound like hate to me but hate can turn to love right ^o^...mukuro interest in tsuna is like you say not physical but more in the interest of politic, while mukuro wasn't interest in hibari at all until his fight with him when he realizes his strong will and decide to keep a tap on him...i do believe their interests in each other are about equal, but i can't think of hibari pursuing mukuro either because it's just against his nature.

in the future i kind of figure hibari learn how to fight well against illusionist because he also has mist wave energy as well, and also he wouldn't let himself lose a second time to mukuro, but it's surprising that mukuro still keep tap on hibari. XD