I normally don't bitch about this stuff, but...

[asael]

I really shouldn't read D18 fics. Every once in awhile I think it might be a good idea, but it never really is, mainly because I really dislike how a lot of D18 writers characterize Hibari. I guess it's no secret that I don't really like how a lot of the fandom characterizes Hibari, but... yeah. I mean, everyone's free to like what pairings they want, I have never been interested in pairing wars (at least, not since I was a wee thing in fandom), but...

I just don't understand the drive that so many authors have to change Hibari's character so he'll work better as an uke. It's not just D18 I've seen this in, but 6918, 8018, basically any Hibari-uke pairing. I'm not saying he can't be - I'm generally of the opinion that seme/uke distinctions don't really matter (it just comes down to personal preference for each fan). And in fact, I much prefer fics where pairing order only matters when there's actually sex involved (despite the fact that I do have preferred orders in most pairings - that usually applies to sex alone, not character relations in general). I don't really want to be able to read a fic and have it blatantly obvious who is 'seme' and who is 'uke' when the characters in question really shouldn't fit the stereotypes. I think that generally is a disservice to the characters, as it sacrifices their characterization to make them more... well, whichever.

I'm sure you know what I mean. Mukuro gets more rapey than he is in canon, Hibari gets weaker. Dino gets more butch and less faily (I love Dino in canon, for the record, fail and all). Hibari turns tsundere and secretly longs for someone to dominate and take care of him (...were we reading the same manga? Is this the same Hibari who, when beaten by Mukuro, spends the rest of the manga wishing for nothing more than to smash his face in and make him crawl on the ground? That desire to be dominated must be buried REAL deep).

Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty much okay to play with characterization to write the fic you want to write. It's just... there needs to be a point where you look at it and say "Why am I writing them this way?" If it's just for personal wank fodder, hey, go for it - write what you like, even if I'll shake my head and write rants like these, because I'm sure in that case you know how far you're deviating from canon. But... I don't know. I read these fics and end up feeling like people think this is what Hibari's character is ACTUALLY like. Tsundere uke slut? For reals? Maybe you need to sit down and review canon.

I mean, Hibari in a dress...? Well, I'll leave my rant about feminization of 'ukes' for another day, and condense it to this - although I do have set pairing orders I prefer, IF I WANTED TO READ HET, I WOULD. I don't want male characters I like so thoroughly feminized that I barely recognize them. If I wanted to read strong rapey seme/weak girly uke (or bitchy girly uke, in Hibari's case), there are a million yaoi manga just like that. And I am on record as really, really hating that dynamic. It's one of the reason I hardly read any yaoi manga - I LIKE set pairing order, but I also really don't like pairings that aren't somehow equal when it comes to strength of personality and characterization.

And hell, as a feminist, even calling it 'feminization' is fucked up. Most women are more interesting and stronger than stereotypical ukes (of the weepy OR bitchy persuasion) any day.

Buuuuut I said I was going to leave that for another day. (whoops)

And I'll stop now because, well, I think I've said enough. This is why I should not rant, and why I hardly ever do except to close friends. I have strong opinions and I get wordy, but I generally have no desire to insult other people's interests, even if I personally really dislike/don't get them. So I try to say nothing.

But hey, I'm on my period AND I've got a gross cold, if ever there was a time to be bitchy, I suppose this is it. Journals are for ranting, anyway.

Comments

[shiisora.livejournal.com]

Omg. Dear, feel free to rant more. You got me cracking up at 5:20am. And I'm sure it's unintentional too. =3=

But anyway, I completely agree with you on this. But there's always going to be someone who prefers to have the uke OVERLY SUBMISSIVE AND FEMINIZED TO THE EXTREME. Even if said uke happens to be someone like Hibari. Ah... the power of fan-fiction. x__x

I usually just avoid D18 fics at all cost, but simply because I don't ship that pairing. Though I have read a few fics from other fandoms that totally just screwed the character's personality into one that's utterly unrecognizable. It's frustrating in a way that leaves me smashing my keyboard and screaming profanities at my uninvolved 8 year old little brother. -Cough cough-

And if you don't mind, would you so kindly link me to a few of those fics you described above? (You know, just for the heck of it. o__O)

[asael.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I normally don't read outside of my pairing, but every once in awhile I give it a try. Usually I am disappointed, though. D: There are probably good D18 fics out there, but I always get the ones that are... not so good. >.>;;

I won't link you because I'd feel really bad! I mean, I'm sure they liked what they wrote, or they wouldn't have posted it. If you're in the mood for badfic, though, fanfiction.net is always a treasure trove of horror.

[shiisora.livejournal.com]

Ironically, I just checked fanfiction.net no more than a couple of hours ago for some D18 fics... Oh the horror. I expected better because I happen to know some very talented writers who post their work there. But when I saw the D18 fics... Idk. Maybe this is harsh, but quite frankly, I died a little inside just from reading the summaries.

[pectus-pectoris.livejournal.com]

AGREED. TO EVERYTHING.

Hibari is like the... freakin KENPACHI of Reborn, you know? I hope you know who I'm talking about. orz All he wants is to do is fight and bite people dead. And to see him uke-fied and needy and... i-in a dress... really makes me want to cry. :(

I think that generally is a disservice to the characters, as it sacrifices their characterization
THIS. Absolutely true.

I had a discussion with a friend regarding 1869 and they said it's impossible as neither would be willing to be the uke. And I said WHY DO EITHER HAVE TO BE THE UKE TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP? Why can't they just be themselves??? lol

And, yes, you're justified to rant, please do it more. :D

[asael.livejournal.com]

I know who you're talking about! And it's TRUE. Hibari's really just there to beat people up and be awesome. I don't understand why that isn't enough for people! He's so much awesome without stereotypical uke traits.

And man, I so agree... I mean, I like Hibari/Mukuro a lot better, but uh, that's just because - to be frank - I think it's hot when Mukuro's taking it (and because I hate fics where Hibari gets raped). Outside of sex? I'd rather they just be themselves! Neither of them are anywhere NEAR seme/uke types.

I kept having to stop to do other things so this may come out disjointed

[nonoji.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Maybe I've been lucky. So far for this fandom, I haven't had the pleasure of reading something so OOC that it would bother me to sickness.

But now I'm tempted to read something awful for the hilarity.

Personally, what bothers me more than the commonly written glaring seme-uke dynamic is when the writer makes one character vaguely IC with the other being interpreted in an extremely idealistic light (the writers favourite). I read one particular fic in my old fandom where one character is portrayed as moody, rude and frustrated which was actually very close to canon, while the other seems to know all the rules and can just do everything effortlessly. It was not how canon portrayed him (they were rivals. They both had their good and bad points equally)and the difference made my skin itchy with NO THATS WRONG. I found it worse than everyone being out of character. At least then, I would have stopped reading right away.

The things that especially annoy me are usually ones that are relevant to my own writing in one way or another. Inaccurate Japanese, cliches and predictable outcomes I am extra sensitive to because I want to avoid them in my own fics.

I guess its a case by case thing for me, but if they stray too far away from canon characterization, whats the point?

Re: I kept having to stop to do other things so this may come out disjointed

[asael.livejournal.com]

If you want 'awful for the hilarity', fanfiction.net is always the best place.

I don't like what you're talking about either - though I haven't seen that much in KHR fandom, I've seen it in some past fandoms, and it's really irritating. I guess I just get annoyed with these fics because it becomes obvious that the writers like the idea of uke!Hibari more than they like canon!Hibari. And if that's the case, why are they even writing HIBARI? That's what OCs are for.

I'm far from the goddess of KHR fanfic, so I usually just roll my eyes and ignore these things, but sometimes it gets to be too much.

Re: I kept having to stop to do other things so this may come out disjointed

[nonoji.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the badfic suggestion!

I also hardly ever read anything outside my ships for reborn but if you ever want to read D18 fics again, you could try reading a few from here (http://fleetingfancies.nokoru.net/fan-katekyou-hitman-reborn.html). I often look through the 6918 section and yes, your fic is on here as well.

[lala-ii.livejournal.com]

Ahaha, I agree perfectly but... I'm afraid that fact makes me a bit of a hypocrite, what with my bizarre compulsion to draw Hibari in dresses and miniskirts. I've never been able to figure out just why... I am a strange person indeed.

[asael.livejournal.com]

Haha! Well, like I said, I really do believe that everyone should be able to draw/write the stuff they like. Just because I don't get it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it!

[lala-ii.livejournal.com]

I believe that to; the trouble is I don't get it, either! I just really love pantsless Hibari... Haha, but life's more fun when not everything makes sense!

[nair-nine.livejournal.com]

Ah, I was so used to seeing strong seme/girly uke all over the place, it's refreshing to know that there ARE people who are bothered by it. :O

I agree with everything you said, power imbalances in a pairing really bothers me, especially if they're rivals in some way. Not to mention horribly OOC...

While surfing the net, especially japanese fansites, I found a curious tendency of no matter what the pairing is, if the writer likes their characters reversible instead of set seme/uke roles, the characters tend to be more IC than most. I've always supposed that it was because they took the best of both worlds, so to speak.

Though I've got a feeling that Hibari wouldn't be the least bit fazed nor turn girly by being in a dress o.o

[asael.livejournal.com]

I don't get why it's so popular. It feels like people decide who is seme and who is uke and then they rely on those cliches instead of actually writing the characters themselves.

Oh, Japanese fandom. Doujinshi make me roll my eyes more than anything, what with the way a lot of them will actually draw the uke as smaller/weaker/girlier... it's so weird. But I think you're right. I think it's absolutely possibly to like a set order and write ICly, but in that case it's a lot easier to fall into the trap of using the stereotypes instead of the characters.

You're probably right about that XD Both Hibari AND Mukuro would probably not bat an eye if they were suddenly in a dress, they would just continue with their daily lives!

[zahho-mii.livejournal.com]

Is this the same Hibari who, when beaten by Mukuro, spends the rest of the manga wishing for nothing more than to smash his face in and make him crawl on the ground? That desire to be dominated must be buried REAL deep.

That made me laugh out loud. XDD

I agree with you on everything. EVERYTHING. It's also why I don't read many fics with uke!Hibari because he's just so ridiculously bastardized.

[asael.livejournal.com]

XD Thank you.

I know! It's so weird. I'm sure there must be GOOD uke!Hibari fics out there, but every one I've read was OOC, and because of that I hardly read them... then when I take a chance, it's OOC. It's a vicious cycle, really. It makes me wary of any fic that has "xx18" as the pairing. D: I just want to shake the authors and say, guys! I shouldn't be able to TELL Hibari is the uke without even seeing the pairing label! He doesn't ACT uke at all in canon!

[anhelle.livejournal.com]

Actually, I imagine 3 people that could dominate Hibari: Xanxus, Reborn and Hyper!TYL!Tsuna. If dominating by sheer force is an option, of cource :)

[lakemonsters]

i normally don't read hibari-related fanfiction as much as possible; with a few exceptions. even then i just normally don't agree with the characterization. it's all fair game after all. you put your fics out there and you will please some people but you can't please them all. at one point i just stopped giving a shit.

my dislike for hibari written as tsundere is about the same as my dislike for hibari written as a robotic killing machine with the verbal capacity of a 4-year old. i guess i told you over chat -- to just avoid reading stuff that's got something to do with your favorites. especially if you are well aware that you like them in a certain way.

and i just have to react to one post up there: hibari still has a long, long way to go to get to kenpachi's level as a character.