IN musings

[asael]

As I was on the way to work today, I was thinking about this...

Angels who Fall and then later on Redeem are treated as fairly rare, right? I mean, I don't have my books to check, but that's what I seem to remember.

Well... that doesn't make any sense to me. Not all angels fall by choice, after all, and even the ones who do... well, they might change their minds when they actually EXPERIENCE Hell. It's not a very enjoyable place, after all, and they remember what Heaven is like, right?

Also, because they remember, they aren't gonna believe the propaganda. So... while I can definitely see why demons Redeeming and then Falling again would be rare, I totally don't see why angels Falling and then Redeeming would be. I'd think it would actually be fairly common.

Hmm... I dunno. Any thoughts? Am I wrong or have I forgotten a key passage in the books or something?

Comments

[vaultedthewall.livejournal.com]

I guess most angels, when they fall, immidietly start lying to themselves on what Heaven was like (if it was their choice to Fall, anyways), and how Hell is better, because they have a choice now, and they can do what they want withoug Heaven's opressive RULES! Yeah. Unless they're Elohite --> Habbalah. "I didn't FALL. What are you talking about?"

[clockworkwings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's the only explanation I can think of... otherwise there'd be a ton of angels Falling and then going 'uh... no. I don't think so.' and Redeeming. ^_^
Even so, I think it wouldn't be TOO rare. ^^;; I just remember getting the impression from the books that it WAS rare, but even if they lie to themselves, it shouldn't take that much to make them realize and Redeem. Especially newly-Fallen, because it's fresh, they aren't used to Hell, and they undoubtedly have friends still in Heaven. (Like Alex!)
Of course, Balseraphs are a little different, because they lie to themselves all the time... and Habbalah think they're angels anyway. ^_^ But Djinn, Calabim, Shedim, and Impudites probably wouldn't be such a problem... well, maybe Djinn and their apathy... but yeah. ^_^
Just some more thoughts. Hmm.

[sesari.livejournal.com]

It might have something to do with how difficult falling / rising is supposed to be. Granted, when we do it in our games, celestials don't lose forces the same way that they do in the books, (right?) From what I've read though, (which actually isn't all that much) rising / falling is supposed to be a PAINFUL, and often traumatic experience. You don't just lose forces, they're BURNED away.

Also, since losing forces isn't a very fun thing, whether you're rising or falling, losing forces AGAIN because you made the mistake of "crossing over" might not really be the best choice for you, as you'll probably end up as something much weaker than you started out as.

On the other hand, if you were to fall, and then rise again, you could lose enough forces to be a reliever again, (yay!) and then be all like, really, really cute and awesome! Parade! :D

[clockworkwings.livejournal.com]

Yay! Relievers! :D

I think Falling is easier than Redeeming. I wish I had my books, will check when I get home if no one checks sooner. ^^;; But I seem to remember that you only lose Forces when you're rising if you're not sure... if you're certain you want to rise, and your desire is true, it'll only hurt a little. I don't THINK you can lose Forces when Falling, except if you pissed off a Demon Prince and they catch you before you find safety. o.o

I'm not quite sure if that's right, I just have the impression that Falling is a lot easier than Redeeming. After all, you can just rack up too much dissonance and 'trip', whereas to Redeem you have to actually find an Archangel who's willing to help you along.

Hmm... I'm not sure if any of that is accurate. -_- All books are at home, of course, and I'll check 'em if no one else does.

And again... relievers! Eee!!

[vaultedthewall.livejournal.com]

That's why I'm guessing most newly-fallen (once they've gotten snatched up by a Prince) are actually held in Hell for several years until they think like Hell wants them to think. Then, once 'rehabilitated' and tagged they can be released once more into the wild. :D (With the added angst of "I was willing to go back! Why didn't you come rescue me?! YOU DON'T CARE!!")
So Alex was a rare one who was Fallen then immidietly sent back to earth. Why? GM MAGIC! DON'T ASK QUESTIONS!!

[sesari.livejournal.com]

::Needs to find a Core Rule Book in a big way::

[clockworkwings.livejournal.com]

Half.com? (http://www.half.com)

I got mine there... limited edition hardcover, $14! :D I'm sure you can get them on Amazon, too, or from the Steve Jackson Games store (I don't remember the address)... or you could just browse secondhand stores and hope. ^_^;; If you want a new copy, you could always see if Aron has one... if not, he might order one in for you? I know he carries IN books.

[clockworkwings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that makes sense. ^_^ Destroy their desire to go home... make them want to stay. Also, yeah... their friends didn't rescue them, so obviously they must not REALLY care! (Even if they did try.)

And Alex is Special(tm). So Special he can kick ass at DDR... angelically. ^_^

[sesari.livejournal.com]

Good plan. :D

If I do order it from Half.com though, it'll totally be just like Star Ocean all over again... sorries, Amandla face. (Spelling Intentional)

[vaultdweller.livejournal.com]

Dude, Calidon is so much better at DDR than Alex. He doesn't even need to step on the pad in order to win... a single wave of his hand and the DDR machine says "I can see a dream in your dance. I can see tomorrow in your dance. We'll call it our hope" to him, while Alex gets a snide "Did you have breakfast today?"

[clockworkwings.livejournal.com]

Oh man... but that's SO cheating. In an actual DDR battle, Alex would win. Because he rocks. And also because he has like 3 levels of 'Dance'.

Calidon would have nothing to do but cry for his sad loser self.